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	<title>Comments on: An end-times deal-breaker</title>
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	<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/</link>
	<description>...somewhere in Paraguay, quelling revolution with a fork.</description>
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		<title>By: The Church Search: A Conclusion of Sorts - chrishubbs.com</title>
		<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/comment-page-1/#comment-12461</link>
		<dc:creator>The Church Search: A Conclusion of Sorts - chrishubbs.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1147#comment-12461</guid>
		<description>[...] be a long list. We started with three churches that were our primary focus, and after ruling out one of them midway through, it was really down to two: Maranatha Bible and Stonebridge. We visited both of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be a long list. We started with three churches that were our primary focus, and after ruling out one of them midway through, it was really down to two: Maranatha Bible and Stonebridge. We visited both of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/comment-page-1/#comment-12318</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1147#comment-12318</guid>
		<description>Hey Thad, thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment.  Good stuff.  Let me expand a little bit and see if I can formulate a reply.

&lt;blockquote&gt;maybe it depends on how you define “dogmatic”, but it doesn’t make any sense to me that a church wouldn’t be dogmatic about what they believe in - otherwise it comes fairly close to crying wolf. I guess I’d be more skeptical of a church that said, “Hey, we believe in such and such, but we’re not really going to act like we believe in it.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m definitely in favor of churches being dogmatic, being outspoken, being intense about what they believe in.  As James points out, faith without actions to back it up probably isn&#039;t real faith at all.

What I am suggesting, though, is that we&#039;re careful about the things we&#039;re dogmatic about.  Just as it would be scary to see a church where everyone dressed exactly the same, talked the same, drove the same cars, and so on, I think it&#039;s scary to see a church where everybody agrees on every fine point of theology exactly.  There are lots of theological places where we can agree to disagree and still have fellowship as believers in Christ.

And so, to come around to the topic of this blog post, in my opinion, eschatology, within certain bounds, shouldn&#039;t be non-negotiable.  As Pastor Aaron said from the pulpit when we visited a couple of weeks ago, Bible-believing people can read their Bible and come up with differing, Bible-believing opinions when it comes to the end times.

Now, I&#039;m not saying that a church necessarily &lt;em&gt;shouldn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; take a position on the end times - both Noelridge and Imago have some end-times stuff in their doctrinal statements, and I&#039;ve signed on to both of them.  But what made Cedar Valley&#039;s apparent position a deal-breaker was that their specific view of eschatology is &lt;em&gt;so important&lt;/em&gt;.  

There are a lot of things that I think are important enough that our churches should have yearly conferences to focus on them.  Missions.  Evangelism.  Engagement with popular culture.  And so on.  But eschatology isn&#039;t one of them.  

Anyhow, that&#039;s where I&#039;m at on the topic.  I know a bunch of folks that go to Cedar Valley, folks who I like a lot, so I&#039;m not trying to take broad swipes at their church - I&#039;m just explaining why I don&#039;t think it&#039;s for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Thad, thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment.  Good stuff.  Let me expand a little bit and see if I can formulate a reply.</p>
<blockquote><p>maybe it depends on how you define “dogmatic”, but it doesn’t make any sense to me that a church wouldn’t be dogmatic about what they believe in &#8211; otherwise it comes fairly close to crying wolf. I guess I’d be more skeptical of a church that said, “Hey, we believe in such and such, but we’re not really going to act like we believe in it.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely in favor of churches being dogmatic, being outspoken, being intense about what they believe in.  As James points out, faith without actions to back it up probably isn&#8217;t real faith at all.</p>
<p>What I am suggesting, though, is that we&#8217;re careful about the things we&#8217;re dogmatic about.  Just as it would be scary to see a church where everyone dressed exactly the same, talked the same, drove the same cars, and so on, I think it&#8217;s scary to see a church where everybody agrees on every fine point of theology exactly.  There are lots of theological places where we can agree to disagree and still have fellowship as believers in Christ.</p>
<p>And so, to come around to the topic of this blog post, in my opinion, eschatology, within certain bounds, shouldn&#8217;t be non-negotiable.  As Pastor Aaron said from the pulpit when we visited a couple of weeks ago, Bible-believing people can read their Bible and come up with differing, Bible-believing opinions when it comes to the end times.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m not saying that a church necessarily <em>shouldn&#8217;t</em> take a position on the end times &#8211; both Noelridge and Imago have some end-times stuff in their doctrinal statements, and I&#8217;ve signed on to both of them.  But what made Cedar Valley&#8217;s apparent position a deal-breaker was that their specific view of eschatology is <em>so important</em>.  </p>
<p>There are a lot of things that I think are important enough that our churches should have yearly conferences to focus on them.  Missions.  Evangelism.  Engagement with popular culture.  And so on.  But eschatology isn&#8217;t one of them.  </p>
<p>Anyhow, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;m at on the topic.  I know a bunch of folks that go to Cedar Valley, folks who I like a lot, so I&#8217;m not trying to take broad swipes at their church &#8211; I&#8217;m just explaining why I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Thad Joyce</title>
		<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/comment-page-1/#comment-12317</link>
		<dc:creator>Thad Joyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1147#comment-12317</guid>
		<description>Hey Chris... how&#039;s it going! Never responded to a blog before, so this is a first. Just wondering though... and maybe it depends on how you define &quot;dogmatic&quot;, but it doesn&#039;t make any sense to me that a church wouldn&#039;t be dogmatic about what they believe in - otherwise it comes fairly close to crying wolf. I guess I&#039;d be more skeptical of a church that said, &quot;Hey, we believe in such and such, but we&#039;re not really going to act like we believe in it.&quot; So at the very least, I&#039;d give Cedar Valley kudos for supporting what they say they believe in. By the way, this whole church search thing... I imagine it hasn&#039;t been easy for you, but what great insights you have - it&#039;d be great if the churches you&#039;ve visited could see this! I&#039;m sure they would benefit greatly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Chris&#8230; how&#8217;s it going! Never responded to a blog before, so this is a first. Just wondering though&#8230; and maybe it depends on how you define &#8220;dogmatic&#8221;, but it doesn&#8217;t make any sense to me that a church wouldn&#8217;t be dogmatic about what they believe in &#8211; otherwise it comes fairly close to crying wolf. I guess I&#8217;d be more skeptical of a church that said, &#8220;Hey, we believe in such and such, but we&#8217;re not really going to act like we believe in it.&#8221; So at the very least, I&#8217;d give Cedar Valley kudos for supporting what they say they believe in. By the way, this whole church search thing&#8230; I imagine it hasn&#8217;t been easy for you, but what great insights you have &#8211; it&#8217;d be great if the churches you&#8217;ve visited could see this! I&#8217;m sure they would benefit greatly!</p>
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		<title>By: Short list got shorter - chrishubbs.com</title>
		<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/comment-page-1/#comment-6418</link>
		<dc:creator>Short list got shorter - chrishubbs.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1147#comment-6418</guid>
		<description>[...] more last night and agreed that Cedar Valley Bible Church is off our short list for the reasons I discussed earlier. So now we&#8217;re back to looking at our short list, figuring out where to head next. Not sure if [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more last night and agreed that Cedar Valley Bible Church is off our short list for the reasons I discussed earlier. So now we&#8217;re back to looking at our short list, figuring out where to head next. Not sure if [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GFMorris.com &#187; links for 2008-10-20</title>
		<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/comment-page-1/#comment-5616</link>
		<dc:creator>GFMorris.com &#187; links for 2008-10-20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 02:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1147#comment-5616</guid>
		<description>[...] An end-times deal-breaker - chrishubbs.com (tags: gfmorris_comment) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] An end-times deal-breaker &#8211; chrishubbs.com (tags: gfmorris_comment) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Terry</title>
		<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/comment-page-1/#comment-5596</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1147#comment-5596</guid>
		<description>SHAME ON YOU! You probably already have the mark don&#039;t you!?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SHAME ON YOU! You probably already have the mark don&#8217;t you!?!</p>
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		<title>By: Geof F. Morris</title>
		<link>http://chrishubbs.com/2008/10/20/an-end-times-deal-breaker/comment-page-1/#comment-5591</link>
		<dc:creator>Geof F. Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrishubbs.com/?p=1147#comment-5591</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;At the moment I’d say I’m at the point of leaning toward an amillennial position, but feeling no need to be dogmatic about it. There are far more important things to get worked up about than the end times.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s pretty much where I find myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>At the moment I’d say I’m at the point of leaning toward an amillennial position, but feeling no need to be dogmatic about it. There are far more important things to get worked up about than the end times.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s pretty much where I find myself.</p>
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